not rev'ing past7500

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JanBros
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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by JanBros » Tue Jun 12, 2018 1:17 am

Marty_Rillo wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:49 pm
Noo den mouser!

I have some info that may help.
Not guaranteed though!

When I first got my kr1s, then my electrician friend came round to solve some problems on it.
One of the screw ups he found was the stator and pickup wiring was butchered.
Thier are three wires from the pickup, and one or two go to the cdi.
The bike would start but wouldn't know where it was on the cycle, and as I wound on the throttle it would rev to around 7500 to 8000 and just brick wall.
It would also spit out a lot of oil fuel from the silencer!!
Matthew then swapped two wires in the connector block around and pop!
Off we went! perhaps the issue is in the wires telling the cdi what rpm it is like that?

Cheers Martin.
I would'nt trust your friend no longer when it comes to ignition's :cry:

every orinary pick-up like on a KR1 or any other bike with a CDI before there was injection only has 2 wires.
pick-up only does one thing : send a signal when the notch on the flywheel passes. If the engine runs, it automaticaly knows where it is in the cycle. making it run bad because of a wrong "timing/thinking where it is in the cycle" can only happen if the woodruf key has broken and the flywheel turned some degrees on the crank, or the pickup moved radialy (which is almost impossible).
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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:21 am

Hi MArtin,

Thanks for your info !

It seems really bizzarre how this would solve the problem...as Jan says....but I'm willing to try it :)....the electrical on the KR1-S seems to bee non compatible with normal physician/electrical rules sometimes :)))))).

thanks
Mouser
Ps: Anybody remembers the voltage output of his WORKING rectifier.....still not sure if the 14.5V output of mine is reall too much...

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by JanBros » Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:33 am

max regulator output depends on one thing : the battery. A 12V battery "in rest" is empty when it only has 12V, so it needs a lot more to charge up again. A lead-acid battery cell is charged when a cell has 2.1V . in a 12V battery, there are 6 cells so a 12V battery is charged when it has 12.6V in rest (measure this 24h after charging. if you have 12.7 directly after charging, but close to 12V after 24h, the battery is dead when you need it for an electric starter. lucky for us, that does not matter)

So all bikes with a 12V battery will have about the same output from the regulator. normaly 14.5-14.8 V (at +3.000 rpm) is considered the optimum, but as you go through lot's of service manuals, you'll see that up to 15.5V pop's up as max allowed.

Forklifts also have lead-acid battery's. for example an 80V battery has 40 2V cell's. The output of modern charger's go up to 100V, that is 100/40=2.4V per cell. 2.4*6=15V.

and yes, all 12V car/bike system's are developped so they can work with voltages from 11-16V so there's no problem there either.

so in long : your regulator works perfectly 8)
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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:14 pm

Thanks Jan :),

That's an detailed answer :). Ok, so no issue from here probably...

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:58 am

Hi again guys,

Sooooooo.....I wanted to check waht Martin suggested...even if if would be weird switched the cables and the KIPS switching working again....but...never know....so I wanted to try this. switched both cables.

started the engine....

it run for 1 min with choke....then suddendly it stuttered and off....well nothing extraordinary with a cold engine.....kicked and kicked and kicked....f*****....it won't never wake up again.....NEVER had this before.....what's this now.....?!?!?

I saw that the exhaust headers where wet, so I took of the exhausts and the sparks....VERY wet....

I have the impression that one of my carb (probably the right one) flooded my crankscase.....

I checked the swimmer....it does close.....but it has to be flooded I think, I left the exhaust off and the spark plugs also over night, mounted everything, kicked it.....nothing moves.....took both off again....WET.

So I think there is much fuel in the crankcase....

Is there a possibility to "drain" the crankcase?

Ps: How often can spark plugs be re-mounted?? At one time the metal ring won't seal completely anymore due to be compressed too often I thought....loosing compression then. Any idea?

Can I check the spark plugs with the following procedure?:
spark plaug out, connecting it to the cable, connecting it with a crocodile cable to the engine head with the thread and then kicking it to see it the spark jumps? Not to check the ignition but to check the plug itself....

Thanks for all your help

Mouser

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Wed Jun 20, 2018 12:34 pm

ok guys,

Now to the root of the problem......

I think, as the swimmer of the carbs do close well, I kicked too much and flooded the crankcase....

Why did the engine not start anymore...?
I now checked the ignition. I do not get a spark (spark tester). Changed the coil. No spark.
Checked the rotor and stator. Everything fine.......

I did, as Martine suggested, invert the 2 cables going (to or from) the pick-up coil. Then happened what I described(engine ran for 1 minute and never again).
Is it possible due to inverting those 2 cables the pick-up coil is fried?
I did invert them again, no change. changing cdi, no spark.

How is it possible to measure the correct functionality of the pick-up coil? I do have no voltage on the cables, but a resistance of 460 Ohm. Not chaning when I turn the flywhell.

How is it possible to check the voltage going to the spark coil? I do not have any voltage on it. Neither when I turn the flywheel (the engine) with the ignition on. What should the voltage be?

I'm getting really crazy here.....first nothing past 7000 rpm, now nothing at all :)....crazy.....

thanks
Mouser

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by SP_BOTT » Thu Jun 21, 2018 11:57 am

I had a similar problem, and started swapping all the ignition parts around, I'm 'sure' the problem was the pick up coil in the end, all my resistance readings were in spec for the alternator and pick up etc. I had fitted a new Dyna coil so dismissed that. Also found a few 'suspect' connections in the plugs (which made my idiot lights stop working), all running fine at the moment and starts after a few kicks. When I did back to back resistance testing, some parts that were not in spec also worked fine.

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm

thanks for your info.

But I would be glad knowing how to measure the following, to be sure.

What voltage does the ignition coil get ? When switched on or only when "kicking"?
Can the ignition coil connections be switched? Or has one to be the ground?

How can the coil be tested/measured? Voltage/resistance?

thanks
Mouser

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by JanBros » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 am

Mouser wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm
What voltage does the ignition coil get ? When switched on or only when "kicking"?
Can the ignition coil connections be switched?
Or has one to be the ground?
any clear reading/signal is probably ok.
why would you want to switch them ?
If you check the electric wiring diagram, you know the answer.
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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:35 am

Wanted to switch them (if I can be sure that this does not fry the coil) to see if that does give me spark....

I don't get a signal/voltage on the connectors to the ignition coil when I switch on, neither when I turn the crank...even with another CD.

IF the pick-up coil is fried, would it then be "normal" not to have any signal/voltage on the plugs to the ignition coil....or what could be the problem....I'm really getting frustrated here with that bike....one problem after the other....

thanks
Mouser

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by JanBros » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:48 am

JanBros wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:33 am
Mouser wrote:
Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:59 pm
What voltage does the ignition coil get ? When switched on or only when "kicking"?
any clear reading/signal is probably ok.
misread this, thought you were asking about pick-up voltage.

voltage to the coil is switched on/off bye the CDI, and that voltage is supplied by the 3 seperate coils on the stator (in the service manual called "exciter coils") And those 3 coils are the ones that usualy fail on the stator, and than you have no ignition. Sometimes they still work when cold, but fail when they heat up.
I once rewinded them, I never gor close to the resistance-measurements needed, but it still worked flawless. I believe there where originaly 3 wires (very thin) wounded in paralel, I used 2 slightly thicker.
Very important to wind them in the correct direction arround the iron.
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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:35 pm

Hi Jan,

Ok for the voltage on the ignition coil. So the on/off switching is maybe too fast for my tester.....or the pick-up coil is fried(due to the experiment suggested by Martin to switch the cables of the puick-up coil(before that it worked, just not rev'ing past 7500rpm).

And Yes, I also asked about the voltage/signal/resistance what ever to measure/see if the pick-up coil is working or not....

The stator seems to work fine....resistance between 3 yellow wires is ok, and gives voltage.

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:31 pm

soooooooo.......finally got my KR1-S to run again :)))))))))), sooooo happy :).

What was the problem....??

Finally I began to change everything, pick-up coil, ignition coil, stator coil, CDI, finally the whole wire loom....

it wouldn't run......

Then I thought, hmmmm, would be stupid, why would this one just stop working while running in idle (the last test where it just stopped running and never woke up again).....but why not the kill switch....I just unconnected both connections that go from the loom to the cockpit. And there was a spark !!!!!!!!!! on the spark tester.......great I thought.....toke the kill switch apart.....couldn't see anything wrong with it.....connected both connectors and I still got a spark...........?!??!?

So finally everything worked fine....from the CDI to the coil etc etc......

well well.....

So the only problem I got now is that I do have 2 screws left over :)))))))))))))....shit.....I hate that.... :).

I looked everywhere....again and again.... I can't find where those do belong.....I know I saw those before....but where

I hoped someone could know where those do belong...I know it's difficult to say....

What is remarkable is that the washers are really thick. It are 2 M6 x 2,5cm.

I had the rotor and stator coild down, covers, sprocket with cover, tank, air filter....

maybe someone does recognize those....hope so :).

thanks
Mouser

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Re: not rev'ing past7500

Post by Mouser » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:31 pm

Can't get the pictures to be uploaded 105kb....shouldn't bo too large though....

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